Guild changes (visible to members only)

[IKShadow]

http://images.mmorpg.com/images/gamelogos/191_8.gif
Now when free month is over we will do some major changes and reorganization.

Sometimes Next week (Monday) we will get boost of new members from another guild that will join/merge with us.

We will get 20 to 25 new members (that will be part of the officers and council) of which 11 to 13 are level 80's.
Wont go in exact details until everything is set to go.

The guild will now become much more competitive and majority of casuals players wont fit and lots will be removed.
( make sure you payed all taxes :P )

Certain play time will be expected and as well participation at guild events.
( all members should have ventrilo set and ready even if you dont use it while you are soloing etc... )

You can expect fixed scheduled 24 players raids (for start probably 3 to 4 per week ) and as well regular PvP practice.

Tax system will also be pretty harsh right until we build city to tier 3 with a battle keep.
( another reason why casuals will have hard time fitting in )

We will have few exceptions ( family, girlfriends, wifes etc...) so dont worry about it.

By the end of next month we expect all current members to be on lvl 80 ( except few casuals ), trained at pvp practices and able to collect tier 3 mats.

We will sort things in next week or so and when things settle we will start with some class recruitment so we fill up blanks.

Due the changes if anyone feels this is not the right guild and plans to quit, please let us know so if you did a "guild loan" your money will be returned to you.

p.s. If there is an interest we could also form a separate guild for casuals and connect chat between those using Echo so we still share the same chat but not same tags. Members could be promoted ( or demoted ) from one guild to another. ( like guild within guild )

[Aqe]

Those of you that play AoC until WAR comes out and get booted out after this will still have a chance to play with us in WAR.

[Proximo]

Great news! I propose that this other guild also will be our "alt-guild" at least until alts are lvl 80 and can participate in guild events.
I like the news, only downside is that i will need to tell my girlfriend i cant play with her as much as i do atm so i can get my hox to 80 and start gathering the mats needed ><

[Heqirish]

Hmm, I should be able to reach 80 by the end of July, np. I've been away for 3 weeks though(back at june 30), so I hope that's considered when I'm standing in my probably sub-par gear compared to you guys who've not been away. ;)

Otherwise, seems great to me. :)

[Proximo]

Btw, this is largely what I was asking about in http://www.futilez.com/index.php/topic,1586.0.html
and i feel that preachers answer and this announcement differs somewhat.

Now I for sure ain't gonna bitch about it cos this is what i want for the guild, get rid of slackers and have a active, mature and fun community to enjoy the game in.
I just wanted to give you a headsup that some members might have been given the idea that these kind of "demands" would never occur. =)

Edit: Just edited it a bit to make it less walloftext and more readable.

[Chimipoint]

This is gonna be a issue for me when i only play 3-4 hours a day x 5 days a week.
I dont have any chance of reaching lvl 80 in 1 month.

And this is not only me.. my friend is also playing the same amount as me when we are playing almost all our time together.
Am very interessted to get to lvl 80 and be a part of team events but i cant sacrifice work and stuff like that to play aoc ^^

[Preacher]

More details on how to chat between 2 guilds using echo please, sounds interesting.

Also dont count my words for facts, IK is a guild leader, i merely express my opinion like a rest of you :)

[Proximo]

Heh I'm not holding you responsible for anything Preacher so no worries. I'm just saying that your comment and no contra-comment from IK on the issue may have lead people to think that there would not be any "harsh demands" on members. Just a headsup, I'm happy about it anyways :D

[Sharee]

More details on how to chat between 2 guilds using echo please, sounds interesting.


Run two chat bots or (two threads of it) and relay messages between the two.
Guild chat picked up in one guild is relayed to other guild like in the example form of:

Timestamp BotName: OriginalGuildUsername <guild chat message>


Btw, this is largely what I was asking about in http://www.futilez.com/index.php/topic,1586.0.html
and i feel that preachers answer and this announcement differs somewhat


This announcement differs a lot from most of what was said about the guilds casual players and their play habbit.

I can only assume that further more detailed explanation of why this has changed is forthcoming.

[IKShadow]

I better explain a bit more as when I made the post did not have so much time. :)
Nothing is really written in stone so we may tweak certain things on the way.

Up till Age of Conan we were always had mixture of casual and hardcore players that formed quite nice guild community.
AoC have certain game mechanics that would eventually "screw" our casual players thats why we feel its necessarily to make some changes.

In the nutshell:
Majority of raid bosses have CD (cooldown) that is locked to a guild, so once guild to certain raid it not possible to do it for next 7 days what basically means casuals would not get any chance to do raids and get their epic equip.
In other games we just had some "loose" raids for casuals that we cant afford to do here as we share same CD.
(Even once we filter out casual members we will have certain ranks and priorities set up.)

Once we become more competitive there will be much more PvP as others guilds will (try to) PK Futilez members much more and protecting our casual lowbies would become full time job very soon.

I dont think is fair we collect some huge taxes and mats from members who play few hours per week and not offering them a chance to participate at raids and other events where there is some group limit.

On the side note:
First post was a bit harsh and let me say now we are not here to offer you 2nd job and tell you how and when you need to be online etc... If you play at least 2h per day / 14-16h per week there should not be any problems.

We wont track your play time or tell you what need to be done but we will have separate tax system /money and resource wise and track your event participation's and based on that you will have your rank assigned.

The thing with ranks are priorities when it comes to any guild events like raiding.

As for taxation we will most likely have few separate taxes for those "core" members with priorities and normal taxation.


Available game ranks:

01. BLOOD INITIATE
New members on trial and as well everyone bellow level 70.

02. SACRIFICER APPRENTICE
More "casual" members that would need to play some to be able to cover guild taxation.

03. RITUALIST ACOLYTE
Core members with full priorites.
We expect them to pay higher taxation and to be available for 80% of all guild events.

04. INFERNAL ADEPT
Officers

Council
05. DEATHBRINGER ENVOY
06. CHAOS LORD (unfortunatly its not possible to have more then 1 chaos lord )

As for leveling wise, all your time off will be considered so dont worry to much about it.

[Proximo]

Again, sounds great. :)
Ritualist Alocyte rank here i come! ^^

[Ancalagonzzz]

All guild officiers gain a pony for free. Once they would be added.

[Chimipoint]

am playing 3-4 hours each day. am interessted in paying taxes and joining team events.
If that's not good enough i will leave..

[Gunta]

I was assuming with the nature of the end game that this form of change to the guild would be something that was likely to happen. With limited 24 man pvp and raid content its unfortunately inevitable that the guild would become ‘streamlined’, focussing more on the hardcore gamers.

While I do play more that I likely should still, and am having plenty of fun levelling, my odd work shifts wont allow me to participate in the majority of guild activities as I work evenings. Im sure im not the only one in this boat.

From what I can gather this change shouldn’t really effect many of our active members, although correct me if im wrong. Hopefully over the next couple of weeks as this process is implemented we wont be missing any of those familiar faces, myself included :)

[Vanquish]

Right, I'm all for good changes to the guild but I do have some concerns.

1) players now levelling to 80, when we get there will there actually be any raid slots post merge?

2) These new players will be subject to the same demands as us existing members (non-80's)

From a totally selfish PoV, I don't want to have struggled my ass off levelling,(i know I moan about it alot, but seriously try levelling maxing out at 15 fps) and taking time out to help with resources to have some part of a bundle deal push me out of the guild through class overpopulation. I'm also concerned as I can't contribute atm because of my pc handicap, and it's looking more likely that it'll be another 2 weeks until i can get the damn thing sorted (HD 4870 cards on pre-order, and having the money to buy one) Which doesn't leave long to get to 80.

I've managed a guild and had to arrange mergers myself, and generally things do go well. I just hope the general level of class awareness of the people joining is good, and it's not just the number 80 you're concerned with.

Perhaps post a bit about them so we know what to expect.

please excuse the scepticism, I've been in the situation before and I hope this decision is being made for the right reasons as opposed to a 'quick fix'.


I'm sure it'll be ok, but remember today's 60's are next weeks 80's, the players that are here, levelling and paying their taxes will be more loyal and potentially as good, or even better players. They deserve some loyalty in return.

[IKShadow]

The reason for the merger is not to get some "quick fix" but more as we find some other guild that have almost the same view point and direction as we have.

Level 80 wise us and them could just wait for a week or two on both guilds would have enough level 80's so we are not depended of outside help.

What we try here is to build community with good leadership and experience from both guilds.
We are already working on DKP system and writing down raiding rules that will be used and hopefully it will be as fair as possible. The plan is that no one is left and we do some decant rotation.

We should not neglect that even if raiding is 24 players the sieging requires 48 players what eventfully mean that the guild need to have around 60 very active members. The fact is some will leave the game and maybe check it out in a month or two.

As things are going now the plan would be to actually have 2 guilds with one where all the higher levels are ( eventually only level 80's) and the other were our alts and casual players would be ..
NOTE: As we speak guild chat bot is being made that will interconnect both guild chats.
The higher level guild will help and boost members in the 2nd guild and once they level up they can move to 1st guild or choose to stay in casual guild.

[Burebista]

Futilez will become more competitive..will expain how:

- With Mayhem guys comming to us we gain alot of end-game very good players and also numberswise we will be able to form daily 24 man raids all guildies to farm epics.
- All current members and incoming ones that can play 4h per day WILL GET BOOSTED TO 80 asap. This is actually the only major change that will effect the members that are in theyre 50s atm up to 79..meaning that you will be asked nicely to come join the boost raid in keshata thus disable you of the oportunity of enjoying the quests and the experience that standard leveling would allow you..dont worry about the gear also..we know where to take you guys and how to get 80 blue items on you.
- Theyr friends lovers relatives that are not so keen on spending that much hours daily playing will join Mayhem (Murdoc and IK are still yet to inform us what that guild tag will be). Also if you are active high level member this means that you will be in the main guild Futilez you will be able to keep in touch with your friends relatives lover thru vent and also chatting..IK is developing an script atm that will enable us to see and chat in bouth main and casual guild chat..basicly making it one..so if our casuals in the other guild have trouble with anything..theyr messages will show on Futilez`s guild chat, you can have your main to raid with us in Futilez..and your alt in the casual guild to play with loved ones..also you can use your main to boost help them.
- All members once 80 will get to raid..this meaning that you will always have experienced own guild members alongside you explaining the tactics and assisting and also since by the time some of you will be able to raid most of the current core members will be full epics equiped and spend theyre time pvp-ing for our casuals or for boosting/protecting in keshatta our future 80`s won`t be 100% guild raid you will be joining..but you will with our allies ones and on the same vent server.

[Proximo]

Does these guild changes also include an expectation on members to participate in a minimum amount of PvE raids, or will it suffice to participate in mostly the PvP parts?

Speaking for myself I can say that I will probably find PvE raiding interesting only the first couple of times when its all new to me, I've never found satisfaction in first-kills and such. I started AoC because its a PvP focused game and my intentions (should I choose to play AoC over WAR, which is possible) are to PvP lots and PvE only now and then.

[Burebista]

PvP game is priority but we need PvE to get the gear,

[Proximo]

Don't tell me I need to PvE to get gear for PvP? If its so I might as well just quit now cos I'm not interested in playing WoW pre-TBC over again.

[Blackhand]

PvP gear is not implemented yet. So don't worry.
When we have PvP system (levels), you could buy proper
gear and get some aditional skills at PvP traiders or trainers
and there will be crafted gear too. So, you should be competetiv
in PvP without raiding at all. We need to raid, because, there we will get
rare matirials for crafting uber stuff. I think this game is for
PvP and PvE players.

[Sturhm]

As i have understood, pvp and pve gear is two different things....as in statwise pve gear have no effect in pvp ?

Beside that i understand the concerns some people have about this, and i might even share some of those.

I am unaware how many here have family´s as myself, but they take time also and especially when you have children. That means i can´t always join in 4 hours every night. I might even have periods where i wont be online for a few evenings, cause of private matters.

Do this mean that i am unfit to Futilez because of said reasons ?

It would maybe have been more fitting to make a pve focused guild, and a pvp focused one as they are 2 different matters in this game. And i am much like Ozi in matters of pve and pvp...i prefer pvp for sure. That not being said i wouldnt want to do raids, i would very much like to do so too.

[Proximo]

Well some occasional raid is fine by me, but no way I'm entering the raid hamsterwheel again to upgrade gear. Its a game, games are supposed to be fun, I find raiding PvE dungeons several times a week to be a 2nd job and not fun.

But, the question is not really whether there will be gear attainable from PvE which is great for PvP too. The question I had was "will members be expected to participate in a minimum amount of PvE raids (like once or twice a week) to keep their position as full member, core member or whatever?".

[IKShadow]

But, the question is not really whether there will be gear attainable from PvE which is great for PvP too. The question I had was "will members be expected to participate in a minimum amount of PvE raids (like once or twice a week) to keep their position as full member, core member or whatever?".


The answer is no, however its reasonable that those that do will be higher on priority list for raiding.
Iam sure we will have core members that wont do raidings at all and may come only if/when we are short of members to start the raid.

Dont forget there are a lot more aspects to the game and raiding is only to achieve goals together and in the process get some nice PvE equipment. Personally Iam far more interested in good PvP equipment and participate at sieges (defending our own/other guild or attacking one ).

What we neglected a lot are also mini games where you can earn guild points and thats something that we need to plan too. We will form aka "perfect" 6 man squads and start doing regular PvP events to get some practice.

Beside sieging the keeps there are also resource gathering towers that can be sieged and claimed much often then keeps but still waiting on info whats going on about it.

For the end -> to reserve your spot as "core" member we expect payed taxes and as well resource donations ( taxes will be modifed a lot after merger is done) then those who are available for most the raids will have priority and other cores will be there as reserve.

@Sturm we are mature guild and most of the members have families so we all know that family comes 1st.
The plan is we dont do any major guild raids and events at Fridays and Saturdays couse thats the time you spend with your family/friends etc...

Lets assume you don't play at all at Fridays/Saturdays and Sundays (during day) if you spent in average 3h+ per day there would be more then enough to cover "core" membership criteria. ( that apply for level 80's we expect low levels to grind faster :P )

[Vanquish]

Ok, seems a bit clearer now :)

[Chimipoint]

seems like that am not going to be a part of futilez when this change happen....

[Discotech]

- All current members and incoming ones that can play 4h per day WILL GET BOOSTED TO 80 asap. This is actually the only major change that will effect the members that are in theyre 50s atm up to 79..meaning that you will be asked nicely to come join the boost raid in keshata thus disable you of the oportunity of enjoying the quests and the experience that standard leveling would allow you..dont worry about the gear also..we know where to take you guys and how to get 80 blue items on you.


Well this is a change from the other day when IK said he was against boosting. Is this going to be something we HAVE to do ? I don't really want to get to 80 as fast as possible for the simple fact apart from raiding which I don't really like there's no end game content. I bought this game for the pvp and sieges, currently they're both not working properly so I'd rather take my time casually playing through the game doing quests & leveling at my own at a pace that IM comfortable with.

[Proximo]

Has the merge taken place already ?

[IKShadow]

Has the merge taken place already ?


Yup

@Discotech boosting is NOT required, however once you get to level 70+ and do those initial quest the best way to get XP is within boosting groups.

[Proximo]

Allrighty, so do we move our alts to Mayhem now or what's up next ? :D

Edit: Btw forget bout that, I remembered now that you are working on that cross-guild chat and guess it won't happen until that's up and running.

[damianhagoort]

I just want to add my thoughts on the issues that have been brought up.

PvE Raids
We will do our utmost to ensure that everyone who wants to raid gets their chance. However note that in non-farm content (bosses we can't nuke with our eyes shut), we will generally be taking along the better equipped and more regular members. Basically this means that those people who are online more regularly will generally end up with better gear, as such attend the more difficult encounters. I personally will try and ensure that everyone gets their fair chance, but in order to progress we need to be sensible about the raids we put together.
Now note that it has been said that you don't HAVE to raid. Which as a general rule I agree with. But if we are short of people for a raid and you are online, I would expect you to attend, even if you don't really feel like it. Who wants to be the guy that stopped everyone else raiding anyway?
Also it is only fair that those people who donate alot of gold/resources get priority on guild events. If you are one of those people that has never donated anything, then don't be surprised if the guy who farmed alot of resources gets more raids than you do.

Boosting
Personally I'm not a big fan of boosting, never have been in any of the games I've played. However due to the gaps in quests that are quite apparent in AoC it is a sensible approach, particularly from about 75+ when the quests dry up. Personally I did instance runs for experience and I don't hold and grudges against those who get boosted. But personally I won't be boosting anyone.

Separate Guilds
At first I was against this idea, for the reason that I like to be able to tell who is online, and chat to guild members when I'm on an alt. However if we can get this chat thing working it removes most of the downsides of splitting alts and causals from the guild. You can't see a list of who is online, but you can ask in chat, so it is workable.
There are also advantages to doing this. Primarily lower levels won't be ganked becuase they are a member of Futilez. As well as a number of other reasons I can't be bothered listing.

Merger
This was a neccessity in order for us to continue to progress. The members of Mayhem that I have played with are skilled players, and I only see it as a positive influx. It also will hopefully give us the numbers needed to be able to start raiding without relying on having a few pugs in the mix.

Timetable
We are in the process of figuring out when this will all happen. As most of you are aware, the Mayhem people are already amongst our ranks. Over the next couple of weeks we will be calculating the numbers of each class we have, and begin some class specific recruiting. Also we will be spliting the casual/alts into the sister guild.

FINAL NOTE
If anyone is concerned about any of these changes, whether it be how it will affect you or just disagreeing with the steps we are taking. Feel free to contact me in game, or send me a PM on the forums. I will do my best to answer your queries, and hopefully put your mind to rest.

[Proximo]

But if we are short of people for a raid and you are online, I would expect you to attend, even if you don't really feel like it.


I agree to just about everything you say except this little thing. If I where the last person missing for a raid, and I logged on to do a couple of minigames (pvp) just for the fun of it, I'd be really annoyed if I where expected to attend a PvE raid that I didn't sign for, I didn't wanna do and that will make me spend time doing something I don't feel like. Its a game, its supposed to be fun, not work.

Add to that the fact that if I haven't signed for a raid, it haven't discussed it with my spouse, and starting a raid then after 15 mins needing to afk cos I need to take care of our kid it will just piss off people more than it will do them good.

That said, I do understand that with possibilities comes obligations, and I will probably sign for an occasional raid even though I started playing AoC ONLY for PvP.


Separate Guilds
You can't see a list of who is online, but you can ask in chat, so it is workable.


This can probably also be sorted via chatbot, as even the simplest chatbots I've tested had support for /whois and will give a "class, level and last seen" when queried with a name. My guess is that it could also be set up to support alts, like "/t echo whois Ozirian", echo replies "Ozirian currently offline, known alts = Proxon (offline), Qivz (online)." Or something like that :)

[Sharee]

Separate Guilds
You can't see a list of who is online, but you can ask in chat, so it is workable.


This can probably also be sorted via chatbot, as even the simplest chatbots I've tested had support for /whois and will give a "class, level and last seen" when queried with a name. My guess is that it could also be set up to support alts, like "/t echo whois Ozirian", echo replies "Ozirian currently offline, known alts = Proxon (offline), Qivz (online)." Or something like that :)


The devil is in the details I'm afraid, but this is not the topic to describe holy nor coding issues.
Will put forth to our leader (or leaders as the case may be) a motion to dedicate a topic for debates of this nature.

[Proximo]

Separate Guilds
You can't see a list of who is online, but you can ask in chat, so it is workable.


This can probably also be sorted via chatbot, as even the simplest chatbots I've tested had support for /whois and will give a "class, level and last seen" when queried with a name. My guess is that it could also be set up to support alts, like "/t echo whois Ozirian", echo replies "Ozirian currently offline, known alts = Proxon (offline), Qivz (online)." Or something like that :)


The devil is in the details I'm afraid, but this is not the topic to describe holy nor coding issues.
Will put forth to our leader (or leaders as the case may be) a motion to dedicate a topic for debates of this nature.


Neither was we discussing it, I was replying to one of his concerns. I do see that it was not very ontopic in regards of OP, but making a new thread just to answer one of his concerns seems more of a waste. If I where interested in discussing bots I'd indeed make a separate topic on it. :)

[damianhagoort]

I agree to just about everything you say except this little thing. If I where the last person missing for a raid, and I logged on to do a couple of minigames (pvp) just for the fun of it, I'd be really annoyed if I where expected to attend a PvE raid that I didn't sign for, I didn't wanna do and that will make me spend time doing something I don't feel like. Its a game, its supposed to be fun, not work.

Add to that the fact that if I haven't signed for a raid, it haven't discussed it with my spouse, and starting a raid then after 15 mins needing to afk cos I need to take care of our kid it will just piss off people more than it will do them good.

That said, I do understand that with possibilities comes obligations, and I will probably sign for an occasional raid even though I started playing AoC ONLY for PvP.


If you are only going to be online for 15min or an hour that is fine, just tell whoever asks you. But if you refuse to come to a raid or siege, then spend the next 4 hours in mini games we will have issues ;).

[Proximo]

That was the issue itself, I maybe logged on to do minigames for 3-4 hours, but what you don't see is that every 15-20 mins im AFK checking my daughter, changing diapers, the lots. I'm still online and visible, but if I where in the raid I would be stalling the raid every now and then.

Usually there's no issue, she sleeps and thats all its to it, but other nights it can be on and off trying to get her to sleep.

Now I'm not trying to make issues before they arise, but I've been in raiding guilds for years in WoW and I know that this is the cold hard truth, the issue may (and most likely WILL) arise sooner or later.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that while I sometimes cannot attend a raid cos of IRL duties, I CAN still play because AFKing during a minigame or while questing/farming doesn't hurt the guild, but doing so during a raid would.

[Chimipoint]

I will be leaving the guild because of the changes.
Am playing the game to have fun.
I want a normal life and with the changes i can have a normal life so am leaving for another guild instead.

Gl luck further.... ;)